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	<title>Comments on: Are Cheating Golfers Dishonest in Business? Who Cares?!</title>
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	<link>http://niceballz.com/media/cheating-golfers/</link>
	<description>Golf reviews, commentary and humor. NiceBallz gives it to you straight, even if your golf game isn’t.</description>
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		<title>By: Galladan</title>
		<link>http://niceballz.com/media/cheating-golfers/comment-page-1/#comment-2160</link>
		<dc:creator>Galladan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://niceballz.com/?p=2703#comment-2160</guid>
		<description>Yeah, we should probably hit more provisionals.  I&#039;m not going back to the tee on a public course on the weekend.  

Didn&#039;t think that we couldn&#039;t put that score into our handicap, though.  Good point, Charles.

I think the game is all about honesty/integrity and you&#039;re only cheating yourself when you kick/move a ball or put down a lower score.  The other guys/gals don&#039;t know when you cheat if you do it effectively.  It&#039;s just in your head and I guess if you can handle the guilt, fine, but there&#039;s so much other guilt to deal with... why add more to the load?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, we should probably hit more provisionals.  I&#8217;m not going back to the tee on a public course on the weekend.  </p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t think that we couldn&#8217;t put that score into our handicap, though.  Good point, Charles.</p>
<p>I think the game is all about honesty/integrity and you&#8217;re only cheating yourself when you kick/move a ball or put down a lower score.  The other guys/gals don&#8217;t know when you cheat if you do it effectively.  It&#8217;s just in your head and I guess if you can handle the guilt, fine, but there&#8217;s so much other guilt to deal with&#8230; why add more to the load?</p>
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		<title>By: Keith Ferrazzi</title>
		<link>http://niceballz.com/media/cheating-golfers/comment-page-1/#comment-2143</link>
		<dc:creator>Keith Ferrazzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://niceballz.com/?p=2703#comment-2143</guid>
		<description>I grew up on the golf course and saw all kinds of cheating go down. Some people followed the rules to the letter of the law, and others would hack and hit for 10 minutes on one hole and jot down par.

I fall in line with @Hack @Charles. I think that it depends if you&#039;re cheating your colleagues/friends or if you are all together cheating the rules. I believe in playing by your own rules - who cares. You&#039;re there to have fun! Now, I won&#039;t report a disqualified score, but otherwise who cares. Now if you&#039;re being sneaky and cheating your foursome, that would certainly leave a lasting impression. 

Ultimately, the most important thing is to have fun and keep pace.

Funny this post should run today, I also ran a post about business and golf on my blog.  Check it out:

http://www.keithferrazzi.com/blog/golf-rules-golf-etiquette/

Warmest,

-K</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I grew up on the golf course and saw all kinds of cheating go down. Some people followed the rules to the letter of the law, and others would hack and hit for 10 minutes on one hole and jot down par.</p>
<p>I fall in line with @Hack @Charles. I think that it depends if you&#8217;re cheating your colleagues/friends or if you are all together cheating the rules. I believe in playing by your own rules &#8211; who cares. You&#8217;re there to have fun! Now, I won&#8217;t report a disqualified score, but otherwise who cares. Now if you&#8217;re being sneaky and cheating your foursome, that would certainly leave a lasting impression. </p>
<p>Ultimately, the most important thing is to have fun and keep pace.</p>
<p>Funny this post should run today, I also ran a post about business and golf on my blog.  Check it out:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.keithferrazzi.com/blog/golf-rules-golf-etiquette/" rel="nofollow">http://www.keithferrazzi.com/blog/golf-rules-golf-etiquette/</a></p>
<p>Warmest,</p>
<p>-K</p>
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		<title>By: court</title>
		<link>http://niceballz.com/media/cheating-golfers/comment-page-1/#comment-2141</link>
		<dc:creator>court</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 20:13:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://niceballz.com/?p=2703#comment-2141</guid>
		<description>How was &quot;cheating&quot; defined in the survey ?  Were they assuming that all the people taking the survey CARED whether they were breaking the USGA/R&amp;A rules of golf ?  Were the results broken down into people playing a casual round as a hacker where getting a lie they could actually hit the ball from was more important than playing it down in a divot where they couldn&#039;t - and skilled players who were playing a serious or competitive round ?

My favorite cheater was a guy in a club who insisted on writing low numbers on his card during the year - which translated into a nice, low handicap to impress everybody.  Unfortunatly for him, it backfired in the club championship when he was put in the bracket with golfers of the same handicap and he got blasted year in and year out.  When he complained about it - we showed him the scores that he had entered for his handicap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How was &#8220;cheating&#8221; defined in the survey ?  Were they assuming that all the people taking the survey CARED whether they were breaking the USGA/R&amp;A rules of golf ?  Were the results broken down into people playing a casual round as a hacker where getting a lie they could actually hit the ball from was more important than playing it down in a divot where they couldn&#8217;t &#8211; and skilled players who were playing a serious or competitive round ?</p>
<p>My favorite cheater was a guy in a club who insisted on writing low numbers on his card during the year &#8211; which translated into a nice, low handicap to impress everybody.  Unfortunatly for him, it backfired in the club championship when he was put in the bracket with golfers of the same handicap and he got blasted year in and year out.  When he complained about it &#8211; we showed him the scores that he had entered for his handicap.</p>
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		<title>By: 33% God</title>
		<link>http://niceballz.com/media/cheating-golfers/comment-page-1/#comment-2128</link>
		<dc:creator>33% God</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 11:22:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://niceballz.com/?p=2703#comment-2128</guid>
		<description>Hit till you&#039;re happy...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hit till you&#8217;re happy&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Hack</title>
		<link>http://niceballz.com/media/cheating-golfers/comment-page-1/#comment-2123</link>
		<dc:creator>Hack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 00:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://niceballz.com/?p=2703#comment-2123</guid>
		<description>Oh I agree many times you are in worse shape by dropping but I actually feel the lesser of the two evils is to not hold up play further by running back to the tee.

If there is any reasonable doubt on whether something is inbounds we tee up a provisional...but even w/that there are times that you just can&#039;t find the damn thing.

Here in the NW this time of year, balls start to plug 2-3&quot; deep in the middle of the fairway at times.  And I recently had one roll into a gopher hole.   

That kangaroo stole my ball!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh I agree many times you are in worse shape by dropping but I actually feel the lesser of the two evils is to not hold up play further by running back to the tee.</p>
<p>If there is any reasonable doubt on whether something is inbounds we tee up a provisional&#8230;but even w/that there are times that you just can&#8217;t find the damn thing.</p>
<p>Here in the NW this time of year, balls start to plug 2-3&#8243; deep in the middle of the fairway at times.  And I recently had one roll into a gopher hole.   </p>
<p>That kangaroo stole my ball!</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Boyer</title>
		<link>http://niceballz.com/media/cheating-golfers/comment-page-1/#comment-2122</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Boyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 23:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://niceballz.com/?p=2703#comment-2122</guid>
		<description>&quot;What’s the worst you’ve seen?&quot;

A guy in a tournament picked his ball up in a marsh marked as a water hazard, set it down in another place, moved plants so he could hit the ball and contacted the ground and the plants with his club before he swung.  Naturally, he hit the shot of his life to within two feet of the cup and made &quot;birdie.&quot;

And I am the King of England.

I didn&#039;t say anything because I was out of contention (I played terribly two days in a row and was steamed about it) and thought if I did say something, it would simply come across as sour grapes.  I know I should have raised holy hell with the Competition Committee, but the guy honestly didn&#039;t know that he broke virtually every rule about conduct in a hazard.  What do ya do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;What’s the worst you’ve seen?&#8221;</p>
<p>A guy in a tournament picked his ball up in a marsh marked as a water hazard, set it down in another place, moved plants so he could hit the ball and contacted the ground and the plants with his club before he swung.  Naturally, he hit the shot of his life to within two feet of the cup and made &#8220;birdie.&#8221;</p>
<p>And I am the King of England.</p>
<p>I didn&#8217;t say anything because I was out of contention (I played terribly two days in a row and was steamed about it) and thought if I did say something, it would simply come across as sour grapes.  I know I should have raised holy hell with the Competition Committee, but the guy honestly didn&#8217;t know that he broke virtually every rule about conduct in a hazard.  What do ya do?</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Boyer</title>
		<link>http://niceballz.com/media/cheating-golfers/comment-page-1/#comment-2121</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Boyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 23:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://niceballz.com/?p=2703#comment-2121</guid>
		<description>Hack, we play the same rules from time to time, and that&#039;s fine so long as everyone plays by the same guidelines.  If you do play an OB shot as a lateral hazard, however, you cannot report the score for your handicap.  It is assumed that scores recorded for those purposes are to the letter and spirit of the law.  Sounds kind of anal, but it is what it is.

Anyway, that playing the shot from where the ball went out can actually be disadvantageous even in a casual round.  Say you hook a tee ball badly OB.  Chances are it went nowhere near as far as a nice shot down the center.  Your dropping from a bad spot, assuming you can hit a good second shot off the tee.  That&#039;s probably not going to help you salvage bogey or even par.  That&#039;s why I recommend that folks playing that lateral rule hit a provisional from the tee if they think they are OB or in a hazard.  A decent golfer will put themselves in a better place most of the time.

Something to think about.  I am not the most stringent guy you will ever see about the rules, but if bucks are on the line, I do expect people to play by whatever rules are in play for the day.  Yes, in a tourney it&#039;s ball down and hit where you find it.  If you&#039;ve agreed to play pick and place, do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hack, we play the same rules from time to time, and that&#8217;s fine so long as everyone plays by the same guidelines.  If you do play an OB shot as a lateral hazard, however, you cannot report the score for your handicap.  It is assumed that scores recorded for those purposes are to the letter and spirit of the law.  Sounds kind of anal, but it is what it is.</p>
<p>Anyway, that playing the shot from where the ball went out can actually be disadvantageous even in a casual round.  Say you hook a tee ball badly OB.  Chances are it went nowhere near as far as a nice shot down the center.  Your dropping from a bad spot, assuming you can hit a good second shot off the tee.  That&#8217;s probably not going to help you salvage bogey or even par.  That&#8217;s why I recommend that folks playing that lateral rule hit a provisional from the tee if they think they are OB or in a hazard.  A decent golfer will put themselves in a better place most of the time.</p>
<p>Something to think about.  I am not the most stringent guy you will ever see about the rules, but if bucks are on the line, I do expect people to play by whatever rules are in play for the day.  Yes, in a tourney it&#8217;s ball down and hit where you find it.  If you&#8217;ve agreed to play pick and place, do it.</p>
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		<title>By: Hack</title>
		<link>http://niceballz.com/media/cheating-golfers/comment-page-1/#comment-2118</link>
		<dc:creator>Hack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://niceballz.com/?p=2703#comment-2118</guid>
		<description>In a friendly round with my friends (that yes also usually involves some nominal amount of $) if I hit a ball that somehow the 4 of us can&#039;t find (and note, this happens with well struck shots...balls plug, grass wraps around it, leaves fall, burrowing animals etc.)...I am NOT, repeat, NOT going to hike back to the tee, and hold up play on what is likely already a crowded course, to strike another shot.  

I will drop, take a 1-2 stroke penalty (whatever agreement me and my fellow playing partners have decided is fair enough) and move on.  

If that taints the &#039;envied reputation&#039; of golf then so be it.  Common sense has to rule over traditionalist ideals at some point...especially when bigger issues than cheating are a threat to the game i.e. slow play.

In a competitive round...OF COURSE it&#039;s different.  I&#039;ve taken the walk of shame and it&#039;s embarassing and sucks but it&#039;s what has to be done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a friendly round with my friends (that yes also usually involves some nominal amount of $) if I hit a ball that somehow the 4 of us can&#8217;t find (and note, this happens with well struck shots&#8230;balls plug, grass wraps around it, leaves fall, burrowing animals etc.)&#8230;I am NOT, repeat, NOT going to hike back to the tee, and hold up play on what is likely already a crowded course, to strike another shot.  </p>
<p>I will drop, take a 1-2 stroke penalty (whatever agreement me and my fellow playing partners have decided is fair enough) and move on.  </p>
<p>If that taints the &#8216;envied reputation&#8217; of golf then so be it.  Common sense has to rule over traditionalist ideals at some point&#8230;especially when bigger issues than cheating are a threat to the game i.e. slow play.</p>
<p>In a competitive round&#8230;OF COURSE it&#8217;s different.  I&#8217;ve taken the walk of shame and it&#8217;s embarassing and sucks but it&#8217;s what has to be done.</p>
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		<title>By: Barry Rhodes</title>
		<link>http://niceballz.com/media/cheating-golfers/comment-page-1/#comment-2117</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry Rhodes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://niceballz.com/?p=2703#comment-2117</guid>
		<description>Corey, As a Rules aficionado I have to point out that there is a world of difference between not knowing, or not understanding, a Rule and cheating. How can anyone justify the latter under any circumstances, whether it is in a match, a stroke play competition, a friendly group of three/four playing for a few dollars, or even for handicap purposes. Golf, more than any other sport that I can think of, is a game of integrity. Don&#039;t let&#039;s spoil that envied reputation by pretending that cheating is of no consequence.

Barry Rhodes</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Corey, As a Rules aficionado I have to point out that there is a world of difference between not knowing, or not understanding, a Rule and cheating. How can anyone justify the latter under any circumstances, whether it is in a match, a stroke play competition, a friendly group of three/four playing for a few dollars, or even for handicap purposes. Golf, more than any other sport that I can think of, is a game of integrity. Don&#8217;t let&#8217;s spoil that envied reputation by pretending that cheating is of no consequence.</p>
<p>Barry Rhodes</p>
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		<title>By: GolferWriterGuy</title>
		<link>http://niceballz.com/media/cheating-golfers/comment-page-1/#comment-2115</link>
		<dc:creator>GolferWriterGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://niceballz.com/?p=2703#comment-2115</guid>
		<description>Yeah, there are some short pocket versions and also some nice visual depictions of the Rules of Golf in pictures, which helps explain some of the more complicated rules or those with several options.

I just thought the new survey on cheating in golf was interesting. I am less interested in debates about whether the rules are fair (mostly) or hard to interpret (sometimes), and more intrigued by the psychology of when people perceive it is fair to bend the rules -- in golf or otherwise. Fascinating stuff.

I once replayed a poorly played hole after a rain delay. I&#039;m not proud. What&#039;s the worst you&#039;ve seen?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, there are some short pocket versions and also some nice visual depictions of the Rules of Golf in pictures, which helps explain some of the more complicated rules or those with several options.</p>
<p>I just thought the new survey on cheating in golf was interesting. I am less interested in debates about whether the rules are fair (mostly) or hard to interpret (sometimes), and more intrigued by the psychology of when people perceive it is fair to bend the rules &#8212; in golf or otherwise. Fascinating stuff.</p>
<p>I once replayed a poorly played hole after a rain delay. I&#8217;m not proud. What&#8217;s the worst you&#8217;ve seen?</p>
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